A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

By Tony Warren

The ‘ideal’ camera in this case being the Zeiss Ideal, a 9×12 model from around 1930. An interesting camera, once known as a ‘hand and stand’, and one of those that survived the 1926 merger to form Zeiss Ikon and continued into the 1930s under the Zeiss Ikon brand. It started life as a Hüttig, becoming an Ica and then a Zeiss via takeovers and amalgamations. I understand the 9×12 model became the Ideal B in the ’30s and had a different back design that MacKeown’s describes as ‘pop-off’ but I haven’t found any details. The whole subject of these backs seems to be quite a minefield from what I have read.

I came across it whilst fulfilling a long time ambition to experience large format in the 5×4 size. I had a Linhof Super Technika IV from around 1960 at the time but couldn’t resist the chance to see how they compared. Both were a big step up from the home made 8×10 cameras and bromide paper ’film’ I had been using previously.

Zeiss Ideal lens and shutter.
Zeiss Ideal lens and shutter.
After market back to replace the one originally fitted.
After market back to replace the one originally fitted.
Double extension bellows draw.
Double extension bellows draw.

The camera was in very good condition for its age with a clean Tessar lens in a Dial Compur shutter that seemed pretty accurate with supple, light-tight, double extension bellows and smooth focus and a rising front. The lens/shutter unit is interchangeable via a bayonet arrangement.

A very well made ‘International’ type focussing back had been retro-fitted at some point which was designed to take standard double dark slides (DDS) rather than the original back. This needed the hard to find single film holders it would originally have come with.

It could be used hand-held with the finders provided and scale focussing or on a tripod and focussed with the ground glass, hence ‘hand and stand’. Two tripod sockets are provided and the small reflex finder can be rotated from portrait to landscape as needed. The small bubble level is fixed to the finder and so rotates with it. A neat feature.

The Linhof could also be called a ‘hand and stand’ that could be and was used as such, but it would take much greater arm and back strength to use hand held, weighing in many times that of the Ideal.

The problem

The only problem I had was that it came with no film holders of any sort and I hadn’t anything suitable and so had to work out some other way to use the camera. I did have some 5×4 DDSs though and with the lens standard having a rising movement coverage would be adequate. 9×12 is very close to 5×4 which measures just less than 10×12.5 cms, so I decided to make another adapter spring back using the existing back as a pattern for the fitting.

5x4 back in focussing position.
5×4 back in focussing position.

It proved fairly simple to make, the back sliding into place and locked in position by means of a notch with a button release. I never managed to reproduce this locking feature but the back was a tight sliding fit, making it quite secure with care. This new version was much thicker, being mostly made from wood, when compared to the slim metal one meaning the plane of focus was moved. This made the focus scale inaccurate so that always focussing with the ground glass would be necessary.

The new back

5x4 back with double dark slide in place for exposure.
5×4 back with double dark slide in place for exposure.
Spring arrangement.
Spring arrangement.
Camera side of 5x4 back
Camera side of 5×4 back

The back I made followed the usual design with a fixed frame mounted to the camera enclosing a smaller, loose frame fitted with a ground glass screen located in the film plane with springs holding it firmly in place but allowing a DDS to be slipped underneath after focussing. Being made from wood it wasn’t anywhere near as sophisticated as the one that came with the camera, but even that didn’t have the locking feature and slid out very easily if you weren’t careful.

Spring arrangement.
Spring arrangement.

The spring was the hardest part to make, my metal-working being even more basic than my joinery, but some piano wire suitably bent and secured, plus a bit of brassware and soldering, served to hold the screen and DDS securely in place.

Comparison

Upper half of frame showing excellent corner sharpness.
Upper half of frame showing excellent corner sharpness.
Still life shot on Technika.
Still life shot on Technika.
Still life shot on Ideal.
Still life shot on Ideal.

It proved slow to use always having to focus on the ground glass, something I did for every exposure on the Technika anyway as I didn’t have a suitable viewfinder (or arm strength if I had). The results from the few still life shots I took with it stood up well against the Linhof’s 150mm Symmar. I used 5×4 FP4+ developed in Rodinal for them all and, apart from some flare in a still life of some flowers (my mistake with the lighting), gave excellent quality from its 70 or so year old, uncoated 135mm Tessar lens. Using older cameras shows how good some early lenses were. It is the designs needed for zooms, extreme focal lengths, large maximum apertures and SLR mirror clearance that mostly demand the complexity and expense of modern lenses plus the demands of digital sensors of course. Even the Symmar is basically quite an uncomplicated, symmetrical design but with 6 elements against the Tessar’s 4.

Overall, however, the Technika’s much improved design and operation meant there was really no contest.

End story.

Ideal in 'Hand' configuration.
Ideal in ‘Hand’ configuration.

Unlike the ending in the station buffet of the classic movie, my brief encounter didn’t lead to love and romance. Owning it alongside my Technika meant it soon went on its way to another home. The 5×4 back went with it though so it is perhaps still being used.

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About The Author

By Tony Warren
In my 60 or so years of serious involvement in photography I have seen the demise of the viewfinder, the rise of the SLR and the eclipse of them all with the meteoric development of the digital camera. Through it all, however, and above all else, the image is what it is all about so I now use film alongside digital. Whatever is the most appropriate or practical. My contributions will hopefully be useful for anyone interested in using film and also how a died-in-the-wool antique like me is continuing his life-long addiction in the digital age, using both platforms. The major benefit of an extended retirement is that I can spend most of my time nowadays with photography and writing about it.
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Comments

Daniel Emerson on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Hi Tony,
it sounds like a love affair with all the work that went in :) Interesting read.
Regards
Daniel
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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Thanks Daniel. Fortunately I like making things.

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John T Miles on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Wow! Going in, I made the assumption that it was a120 roll film back!
Excellent work and interesting read.
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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Thank you John.

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Gary Smith on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Maybe not a love affair but certainly an infatuation flirtation :-) It looks as if your fabricated back did the trick as your included images look good to me. I suspect that reading everyone's adventures with old cameras isn't helping me (as I seem to go out and buy ones that I might only ever shoot once). Help me please!
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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Sounds like you are fighting a losing battle Gary. Old cameras have an attraction like no other to some of us so why not, as we Brits were told when invasion threatened, "keep cqlm and carry on". Don't fight it :-)

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Gary Smith replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Did a walk about today with my 9-18 on the gx9 on my wrist and the Perkeo in my pocket!

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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

Was it just ballast or did you use the Perkeo Gary?

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Gary Smith replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

I'm almost finished with the roll. We will hopefully finish off the last 1 or 2 remaining and send the film off to The Darkroom to see what develops. It didn't feel like "ballast" it was quite comfortable in and out of my pocket - much more so than lugging the Mamiya 645 around that's for sure.

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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/05/2024

I wasn't serious about the Perkeo. I hope we will see what it produced. After the Leica I on the cover of "To catch a spy", the Perkeo was the camera I most lusted after 60 or 70 years ago!

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James E. Langmesser on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 04/05/2024

Back in the '90's I acquired an Ernemann Heag VII camera similar to the one in this article. I faced the same film holder problem. My solution was to use an existing film holder with its rails for the film pack. I then made a thin plastic sheet to fit these rails, glued on two plastic rails obtained from a model railway hobbyist store on either side of a hole for 120 film and covered the outward facing plastic with felt. The rails were then used to hold a Graflex 120 film pack. Before inserting the pack to take a picture i had a piece of glass frosted on one side inserted in the rails to compose the picture (on a tripod, of course). The viewing glass was removed, the film pack inserted, and the picture taken. I drew up detailed instructions on the construction and sold them to a local camera store who had many such cameras and now had a solution to market them as useable. With a little ingenuity these old masterpieces can still take pictures.
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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 04/05/2024

A novel solution James and interesting to read about. Very satisfying exercise too.

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Ibraar Hussain on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 07/05/2024

Good story - sad ending ! A shame it didn’t work out for you too. There can only be one!!
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Ibraar Hussain replied:

Comment posted: 07/05/2024

For you two not too. Damn auto correct

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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 07/05/2024

Too troo (sorry) Ibraar.

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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 07/05/2024

They can be real hoots.

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Daniel Emerson on A brief encounter with a (Zeiss) Ideal camera.

Comment posted: 03/06/2024

Hi Tony,
A revisit. I am stunned by the contrast, sharpness and composition of the cut crystal and bottle setting. Unobtrusive lighting. FP4 and Rodinal delivered, and as you said, all from a 70 year old uncoated lens. A master's hand at work.How did you light it? Large diffused sidelight?
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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/06/2024

Thank you Daniel for your kind comments. I use a couple of LED lights and reflectors, just one light and a reflector in this case. Tony.

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Daniel Emerson replied:

Comment posted: 03/06/2024

Can you share a few more words on the setup and the thinking behind it.

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Tony Warren replied:

Comment posted: 03/06/2024

It is some time since I took these shots and looking more closely at them again I think I used both lights in fact, both with diffusion in a setup enclosed by black to emphasise the highlights but not increasing contrast too much. There are continuous tone areas in the bottle label and the logo on the corkscrew which would suffer from a high contrast treatment. The lighting was top and front as I thought but the front light is stronger than a reflector would be and is actually the main light, the top left is almost as strong but mainly to define the shapes of the various elements. The guy who does some illustrations for Gray's of Westminster second hand Nikon dealers is a past master and has been a big influence on me.

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