How dull! Another film vs. Digital argument! Actually, that’s not what this is. Instead, this is intended as an argument against the argument, because seriously, I’m so bored of the argument, I can’t bear it anymore. As much as anything else I just need something to link to when it comes up…
This isn’t going to be of one of my usual long meandering posts (not too much at least) – even arguing against the whole argument feels like a bit of a dull thing to do. As such, I’m just going to highlight a few of the common arguments and note a few of my thoughts on them. Just beware if you’re sensitive to this sort of thing, I turned down my swearing filter a little, and have gone a bit full-rant here… enjoy!
Film/Digital has more Resolution
The resolution argument drives me mad! Mostly because it’s largely completely irrelevant in real terms! Folks seem to take on one stance or the other, either claiming that digital is higher resolving, or film is. Most people don’t seem to have a bloody clue what they are talking about within the argument anyway, and even those who seem to also seem to understand what resolution is, often seem to have missed the glaringly obvious point that it doesn’t matter anyway, not really…
For a start – genuinely – when was the last time you judged a photo on its resolution alone?
“The other day I was walking around a Henri Cartier-Bresson exhibition, and if there was one thing I was struck by in the 6×9 prints hanging on the walls, it was their resolution”.
Can you imagine anyone saying that? Ok, Bresson isn’t a photographer famed for use of resolution, but even photographers who take advantage of high resolution, don’t solely rely on it. Not the good ones at least. If the image resolution is the only one thing that stands out as a specifically obvious attribute, I’d suggest the photo is probably pretty shit!
The technical answer to the question is that, per square area of light-sensitive surface, film probably(!) does have has more potential for resolving power – it is after all analogue. But, you’re gonna need to be shooting fine grained film, drum scanning it, or printing it pretty bloody massive before any single possible discernible advantage is even remotely likely to rear its head – and even then, for the reasons in the last paragraph – seriously, who gives an actual shit? What real terms gain is there when it comes down to that tiny level of difference? Nothing of any importance!
Why would I shoot film when I can make digital look like film?
This question is another that drives me up the wall. There are so many technical arguments outside of the resolution one – none of them interesting enough to talk about in any real depth. the various merits of dynamic range, latitude, tonality, high ISO capability all come up when this question (and a few others) are posed. But the fact is, given the right circumstances digital can be made to look very similar to film, and indeed some films can look very similar digital – which is a fact that never seems to be talked about. (I talked about it in my RNI review here.)
The thing that confuses and frustrates me is that rather than simply thinking about creating an aesthetic, we seem to be obsessed with the idea of one thing simulating the other. Take the medium out of the equation and we’re just left with the desire to create a particular aesthetic. Processing digital in a way that looks like film, needn’t be about creating a facsimile, it should just be about making a photo that looks the way the photographer desires.
The aesthetic – and not the process – is the thing that is appreciated by the end observer of the image, and a very large percentage of the time, the end observer should know and care little or nothing about how or even why that aesthetic was achieved, but instead what that aesthetic evokes in them.
The point of me mentioning this is to highlight that the process – and indeed the understanding of how to take advantage of the various technical advantages of each medium – is something that belongs to the photographer, and is basically completely irrelevant to the end image – at least in the eyes of the third party observer of it.
The process is the photographers choice, and the choices the photographer makes in this context come down to said photographers enjoyment of, and level of experience with the various processes and technical attributes of the different media.
As such the answer to the question “Why would I shoot film when I can make digital look the same?”, is a simple one! At least to the person that is asking the question, the answer is “you wouldn’t!” If you’re asking that question, film obviously is not the media for you… and therefore the question is moot!
It’s not even that I don’t understand the anti-film perspective that many people who hold this view tout. Film is more expensive, it can be more time consuming (especially if you aren’t used to shooting it), it is possibly more open to more chance of failure (especially if you aren’t used to shooting it), etc. So why would anyone bother to shoot film?
Well, taking into account the previous few paragraphs, surely it’s obvious? Anyone who shoots film is likely doing so because it helps them create the aesthetic they are after in a way that suits them! Through their experiences and accrued know-how, they are able to harness certain technical attributes in a path toward creating the aesthetic they desire.
That being said, it might also just be down to the fact that they like doing it that way. Just like shooting digital and post-processing might suit one person, to the next, the process of shooting film might simply be more enjoyable. In this context, it’s as simple as ‘different strokes, for different folks’! Is that really that difficult a concept to grasp?? If we liked doing the same thing, the world would be a pretty bloody dull place!
The process of film photography is more pure, it’s more real and more hands on
I’ve said this myself, but in my defence, I usually reprimand myself for it later. “Get over yourself”, I say to myself. “How’s the view from up there on your high horse?” “What’s that? ‘superiority complex’? That’s a funny name for a horse!
Cynicism aside, I get it. I like stuff that feels like it’s done properly. Proper cider made by proper farmers in Herefordshire, proper single malt, real leather camera straps, analogue hifi. I love all that shit, but it doesn’t mean I don’t also like cheap Whisky from Aldi, my Mytek Dac that streams MQA through Tidal, and my iPhone. Life is a rich tapestry of options, variables and experiences! Why limit yourself with some sort of blinkered dedication to one thing or another?
Was Daido Moriyama any shitter as a photographer when he started using a digital point and shoot? No, of course he wasn’t! It’s stupid to even think of it!
Next!
Shoot film because it helps keeps the medium alive!
Right! … Wait, what … ok yeah, I agree with this! So many of the joys we have in life come from the options open to us. Not all options are a joy I admit, 27 verities of the same brand of toothpaste pisses me off no end, but its the price we pay for the real choices we have. Those who have these choices should feel enormously thankful for them, and should do what’s in their power to retain them for themselves and those around them. Shoot film, because you can, shoot film because if you don’t our children might not be able to. That is a very fair argument for the use of film in my mind!
In conclusion…
Get over it. Stop with the arguments. They. Are. Pointless!
The reality is, no one who’s opinion matters when it comes to observing an image will be worried about the medium that created it. You’re not gonna get marked down because you’ve decided the digital route is actually easier, or indeed that film gets you the results you want quicker. Anyone who does mark you down needs to be asking themselves some serious questions about what photography is for!
The only question should be, is the photo good? Within that there might be a discussions about whether or not it is aesthetically pleasing, its tonality, colour, grain, composition, use of depth of field, how shutter speed was used, light, where the photographer was standing and why, narrative, lack of narrative, the fact that the photographer only has one arm, moral questions, questions about what’s outside the frame, the photographers intent, etc etc etc … all of these things are much more interesting and more important than whether or not it was taken with film or digital… so seriously! Get over it! Pick up a camera – any camera – and go and point it at some stuff!
Thanks,
Hamish
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Alex Yates on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Hamish Gill on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Thomas Risberg on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Victor on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Simon on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Richie on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Marty on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Christos Theofilogiannakos on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Sid on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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George Appletree on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
For one reason or some other photography (probably among many other disciplines) was always loving this or that other dichotomy: truth versus non truth (some argue if the famous Daguerre's shoe cleaner photograph at Boulevard du Temple was or not staged ... what does it matter?), art versus mechanical reproduction (remember pictorialism and those called "equivalents" -equivalents to what?, is my own reflexion- by Stieglitz). Etcetera.
Now is the time (once the wave passed) of digital versus film... what is more "authentic" is perhaps the question.
So, you mentioned the term "evoke". Yes, because grain or sepia for instance seems resembling something (better, worst?... now people need old lenses and vignetting for their brand new digital cameras).
And I agree: if you want your photographs look like film, why don't you shoot film?
But don't agree with this:
"The reality is, no one who’s opinion matters when it comes to observing an image will be worried about the medium that created it"
Telling that because I really mind about all those photoshop works, for example. Yes, I like some of them, but are they photographs or some other thing?
Or, ... we're very used to see photographs on a screen, but what about this mania of scanning analogs. Right, it's complicated making chemical prints by yourself or finding a pretty good lab to do it. But, ... even the masters print their beautiful film work with ink printers! So why.
It's not at all the same watching a screen, a digital ink print or a pretty chemical baryta print. Even less a cyanotype... yes, you can make it blue in your computer (so sad).
Some thing obviated in your lines though is the practical side. Yeah, I make digital because it goes straight on to the computer and it's easy to handle and it allows modifications, etc. And that's very understandable.
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
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You missed this part when you read the article.Ian on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Ted Ostrowski on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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John Lockwood on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Terry B on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
I believe people should just get on an enjoy whichever format they use, as surely their choice determines the end result they want, does it not?
If I may put the cat amongst the pigeons, and raising the hackles of some, the digital v film argument is flawed anyway because invariably one is not comparing like with like, but rather an analogue/digital work process (film digital scanning inkjet print) with a clean digital path from capture to printing. And what makes it even more pointless is that using a full analogue chain from negative to print would introduce so many variables of their own to make the comparison invalid.
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
Tony Karnezis on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Ian on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Kevin Thomas on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
There is another comparison... The tubes for guitar amps looked like they were going the way of the dodo in the 80's, however the market for tube amps has grown to the point where more tubes are being made today than were made in the mid-80's. I see the same thing starting to happen with film. We're even starting to see specialty film cameras being developed (like at Impossible). Keep buying film!
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
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Garry on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Martin M on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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jeremy north on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 12/03/2017
I shoot film because I'm a dinosaur. I detest menu driven anything. I like proper controls. I like old cameras because there are two controls, aperture and shutter. Stick in a film and you know the rest. Focus and exposure. Post processing is not even n my consciousness.
Also I like a hard copy. I like LPs and CDs/ DVDs. I would not pay for a digi download. Plus with negatives or trannies you have something tangable. That piece of film was millimetres from your eye when you shot it. That is pretty visceral. Even though a scan and inkjet print is digital, the actual film is a physical record is a remarkable thing.
It is not about the convenience vs the "look". As has been pointed out here both digital and analogue have their merits. A vegetarian won't eat meat so what's the point in arguing. If it is a personal choice then let it be that way.
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Neil Woodman on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
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Dan Castelli on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
My older brother loves to fly fish. He's been doing it for over 50 years. His favorite pole is a split bamboo, made by an unknown New England craftsman back in the 1890's. You see, that pole works for him, his style and pace. He's been given 'advice' by weekend fishermen outfitted with the finest equipment from stores in Maine & Vermont (I bet some of you will figure out who...) worth several thousands of $$. He's polite, smiles, looks at their gear, but he knows what works for him (and the trout.)
Our daughter is a professionally trained artist. She teaches on the university level, and has clients all over the world that buy her work. When digital programs came out for artists, she didn't burn her brushes and squirt out all of her water color tubes. She, along with innumerable artists, adapted to the digital tools, and evolved...she creates with pen & ink, but will scan her work and connect with potential markets via digital media...
So, I hoped we had reached the point that we photographers would find what equipment would make us comfortable (me, I like the film to print workflow...that is my methodology), and if we wanted, we would adapt to using new tools (full digital workflow/film to scan to...) and finally understand there's room for all, and it's each person's individual journey in photography.
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
Alexis on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
A professional psychic told me once, she could not get the "waves" out of an inkjet print whereas a true sliver gelat. print was like an open air, uncensored radio broadcast. The "wa-eh-eh-eh-ves" man, don't you forget your science!
Sorry couldn't resist, took the the time to read it so I had to take the time to comment...
Science aside, tools are tools, some are used to produce photographs, some others to produce images, yes digital monster, talking about you :)). For people interested in viewing images, then indeed why should they care?
But I would argue those people will miss an important dimension of cave art (wait a sec there's some logic to this): the artifact, the mind blowing possibility of touching what another human being was touching with his/her bare hands some 30 000 years ago. Also true of an antique sculpture, or an analog photograph, albeit more recent.
The aesthetics can't be totally detached from the medium because you'd loose the artifact, which in mankind history is pretty hard to neglect. Pure aesthetics is just a concept as it needs a support which in itself carries a message, a meaning or even just an information. Until we're plugged into a the MATRIX tactile ain't dead, and it speaks to the mind. If it can thereby evoke "a sense of beauty" isn't it close to the aesthetics definition itself ?
But that's just me ;)
Peace (don't smoke it, I tried, it's bad for your health)
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Francis.R on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
I shot both and use my pictures in film to help my digital files to get a reference to certain colors as those in the sky or the grass (I use ektar 100 and colorplus 200),avoid to take one thousand photos but get it right; and viceversa, in film I try to be as casual as in digital, to worry less about losing a valuable shot and just have fun. In the end I use different cameras to avoid to fall in the veneration of the object and just focus in the content, what I see and don't want to forget.
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Terry on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Mark on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 13/03/2017
I like the film results. However, I worry that this is simply down to the investment of time and effort put in to the film images. For example, I can shoot the same scene with an AF digital camera and the M7. The digital camera gives an instant, effortless result, whereas the film camera needs careful focusing and then a tricky, expensive and time-consuming process of developing and scanning/printing.
The resulting two images may, after processing, be for practical and artistic purposes identical - but I suspect that I mistakenly value one much more simply because of the effort that went in to making it. I doubt others see that distinction.
To be blunt, the only reason that I shoot film is because I really enjoy the process of shooting and developing film - but that seems to be an uncomfortably indulgent reason to me...
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Michael Kay on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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karellen on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Ed Worthington on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Victor Reynolds on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 14/03/2017
I want to go from my town of Plainfield, NJ to Midtown Manhattan-a 30 minute trip by car on a nice day. There are numerous ways I can still reach Manhattan, and they don't have to be by car. Lots of times I go by train. I can also go by ferry. If I were really adventurous-and not to give my wife heart failure-I could bike into Manhattan. Yes, one way is quick and direct. Whereas, another way is scenic and takes time.
This is the same regarding film and digital: each is a different route to the same destination: a quality image. True film has a permanence that digital has yet to have; plus its tangible. Plus, I can enjoy shooting with either roll, sheet, or instant. I enjoy the hands-on with film that digital partially gives. I also don't have file issues like I do with digital. On the other hand, digital is fast and I have mastered its workflow over the years from shot to computer. Plus digital is still a winner with dark/night photography. Both have their pluses and minuses, however they both help me to achieve the same goal-a quality image. Plus, I've used both to create gallery-quality artwork.
My advice kids? Tell the politburo to shove it and shoot with what works for you.
George Appletree on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 14/03/2017
The introspective work of having a look at your own photographs, printing them perhaps, thinking of them,... writing on them, or letting them quietly rest inside their plastic or into the cd or wherever you store your digitals is often much more useful than being clapped in this or that site on a computer screen.
Bob on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 15/03/2017
Bob on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 15/03/2017
zoran vaskic on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 16/04/2017
I am a photography neophyte Hamish, but your mouldy dyslexia was refreshing. I cant make virtually any authoritative pronouncemements about photo making in my newly born state. I can make some early observations. After 2 and 1/2 yrs shooting only digital, an x100, the other day while looking at some film photos I realized I like grain...sometimes. I like sharp, but I'm pretty sure I also like soft sometimes. I love colour, but golly gee whiz there is some black and white that is sensational. Can that be done ONLY via film? I like order and organization in a photo but thank God for the folks who have a knack for for presenting the off kilter and quirky in a masterful way, and on and on. Can all this be done ONLY via film? Finally, i have about 40 film cams collected in my short time because i cant help myself though they are all unshot till i get some resources for self developing, a notebook, scanner, etc. No place to develop nearby and for me money is whats holding back this stable of horses from being set free for the time being. I use an x100 solely at present. When I start shooting film will I drop the x100 and ban all its other digital siblings from my presence? I trow not! Why would I ban myself from great tools? I cant see it. I have read lots in the last couple of years, and confess to reading holy latherings here and there by ordained priests of the craft on the greater glories of film vs digital, and I dont doubt truth is in some of it. But honestly there are times the sickly sweet worship of film over digital is just that: too sweet. And we know what happens when you o.d. on sweets: it makes you a bit unwell. I very much look forward to getting my act together snd shooting my film cameras, Lord hasten the day, and but I also plan on continuing to shoot this or some other digital. Will I have a heavier leaning toward film. Likely I will be leaning more to one side, we'll see which side that is. In the meantime, yes, I agree, its about creating a pleasing, interesting image. Do a simple test. Round up a crew of film leaners and/or digital leaners, present 100 (or whatever number) images both film and digital (and lets assume they are quality images) to them, present no info on whether they are film or digital, tell them it is a collection that belonged to a homeless man and no one has a clue what type of cameras he shot. From the film leaners carefully document their unwitting droolings over the digitals, and vice versa the digital leaners. From there, have them prosecuted, putting the fear of God in all who dare engage this controversy anywhere in the kingdom. Thus will peace rule again and the agitators silenced. Am I nuts?
Comment posted: 16/04/2017
JR Smith on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Brian on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 22/04/2017
These days, I mostly shoot Digital with the M9, M Monochrom, and Df. Not as convenient as a Polaroid, no magic watching the image materialize in front of you.
Alice Faber on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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turvyjj on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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rick on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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John Houston on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Kodachromeguy on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
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Tom on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 20/05/2017
A disproportionate number of people that are active on Internet forums seem to have a deep need for the whole world to agree with their opinions. Once you realise this it stops being something that bothers you. In the real world people are not so insecure.
@Kodachrome Guy
You have forgotten to mention (amongst other things) nthe ritual "dissing" of most things Canon and gushing praise for all things Sony
:)
James Howard on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 26/05/2017
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Boieriu Bogdan on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 19/06/2017
James Merecki on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 25/07/2017
http://twolightsart.blogspot.com/2017/07/technology-has-killed-true-spirit-of.html
Neil Woodman on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 26/07/2017
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James Merecki on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 27/07/2017
http://twolightsart.blogspot.com/2017/07/technology-has-killed-true-spirit-of.html?m=1
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Doug McC on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 07/10/2017
And the "end observer" may only be the photographer (usually the case with me).
I happily shoot film and digital, whichever I feel like using at the moment. Sometimes I do no post-processing, or a little, or a lot -- until I get the image I want (regardless of which technology it came from, as Hamish suggests).
Thank you.
Comment posted: 07/10/2017
Karl Valentin on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 23/04/2018
That´s when it get technical and over the years stuff like that gets out of hands I think.......
Good news for me that I started to look at my pictures while getting bored with digital results ruled by postproduction
tools like Photoshop and went back to film with my personal projects.
Took me a while again to find out that this wasn´t the holy grail too because looking trough a viewfinder and pressing to button
catched a moment but a lot of the time not the picture I saw at that moment.
What makes me take this picture and what do I want to show with it ? This seems a important question before I think about how to get it.
Right ?
Ryan Raz on Film vs. Digital – An argument against the argument
Comment posted: 14/01/2020
I love medium format film
I mostly take digital pictures
A few times a year I make out with my second love